Lisa Fields: Hello. Welcome to the Jew three Project podcast. I’m your host, Lisa Fields. I’m the founder of the Jew three Project. Well, thank you for watching another episode of the g three project podcast. As always, I’m your host, Lisa Fields, the founder of the g three project. And today, I’m joined by a very special guest, Erica Anderson. Welcome.
Ericka Andersen: Thank you so much for having me. I’m glad to be here.
Lisa Fields: Tell our audience a little bit about, who you are.
Ericka Andersen: Sure. Yeah. My name is Erica Anderson. I live in Indianapolis, Indiana. And I guess two big things that would describe me are I’m a writer and I’m a mom. So I have two kids that are 10 and seven, and then I’m a freelance writer, write for a variety of publications including Christianity Today, World Magazine, Wall Street Journal, and, and then it just came out with my third book.
Lisa Fields: Yeah. And that’s what we’re here to talk about. What inspired you to write, this book, Freely Sober?
Ericka Andersen: Yeah. Well, it came from my own personal experience, basically living with this very unhealthy relationship with alcohol in my life for about twenty years, and all the while being a believer, and sort of pushing off trying to get that out of my life for too long. And I came to a point, six years ago where I decided this is something I really want. I wanna overcome this. And, what I found was that there was very few faith based resources out there for people that were sober curious or looking to get sober. And so while I found a lot of good stuff, a lot of great memoirs and programs, the one thing that was missing for me was, Christ at the center of it all. And so as I got sober and was writing about this for articles and on my own substack and things, I realized we need this resource. We need a book for Christian women specifically because when you’re a Christian and Christ is not part of the recovery plan, it’s not complete. And so that’s why I wrote Freely Sober.
Lisa Fields: Oh, that’s awesome. So as as we think about, like, sobriety, you know, when we talk about alcohol, in Christian spaces, people always wanna know, like, is drinking the sin? Right. And if drinking is not a sin, then it’s okay if I’m not getting drunk. Like and so that is the that is kind of the litmus test or, you know, conversations with people. Jesus Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine. And so, Paul saying take a little wine for your stomach’s sake. So there’s all of these kind of, alcohol, apologist. For sure. And so so, and I’m not saying anything is bad about drinking, in moderation. But when did you know that something needed to shift, in in your life as it relates to to that?
Ericka Andersen: Yeah. And I certainly don’t, think that drinking just period drinking is sinful in and of itself. I think there’s a lot of factors that go with this. And, as as we most people say, it is a personal freedom issue, but I think it’s, I would say, also a personal conviction issue. So Mhmm. I think we all need to individually be sort of evaluating our selves, our relationship with alcohol, talking to god about it, making sure, like, hey. Is this really aligned with what god has for me personally, and am I using it in the right way is one thing I would say, on that, and we can talk talk more about that later. But, as for myself, when did I realize it was a problem? I, you know, I started drinking when I was in high school and, you know, just like a lot of people do sort of in a rebellious phase. But I think from even the very beginning, I knew that something was a little off with the way that I drink alcohol. And addiction does run-in my family. And so we know that for some people, when you even when you take that first drink or you do that first drug, like, there are some people that are gonna be immediately more likely to become addicted. And so I think that was part of my story. It’s just, you know, it’s there. And but I wasn’t ready to grapple with that as a young person. I was like, well, there’s I mean, there wasn’t even a consideration even in my twenties as I, was drinking probably very irresponsibly and making choices, because I was drinking that I wouldn’t ever make any other time. I used the excuse of youth not to deal with it, and I would just sort of brush off or push aside any sort of conviction that I had, which I did have. Because all the while, I was going to church and I was, you know, strong in my faith on one side, but I would cart compartmentalize this Mhmm. Addiction side of me, as if I could do that, as if you can’t be a whole person at all times. And so it wasn’t until I was in my thirties and really started having kids that it it became real to me. It became a thing where I was like, I can’t ignore this any longer. I I don’t know if it’s just I I don’t know that if it was just having kids or if it was also just, like, my age and, like, recognizing my own mortality and the reality of, you know, life is only so long, and do I really wanna be struggling with this, like, for the rest of my life? But those two things in combination really led me to a path of, like, I’ve I I don’t know. Just just being curious about it. I mean, like, is this possible even though it didn’t seem possible? And then, thankfully, I did that. Thankfully, I followed that, that path that was laid out for me. And now I am five years sober. Thank God. And I’m I’m really, really thankful for that.
Lisa Fields: Yeah. What what things would you, have people evaluate as they’re thinking about their relationship to alcohol?
Ericka Andersen: Well, I would say, you know, if there’s a question coming to mind, like, any sort of I know I keep using the word conviction, but it seems like the most accurate term when you’re talking about believers. If there’s any question in your mind about the way you’re using alcohol in your life, I think it’s worth evaluating. That doesn’t mean, oh my gosh. You have to quit drinking right now. But it’s like, let’s explore this. Let’s dig into this. Because alcohol is not it’s not just a benign substance. It’s not just like grape juice. It really is something that affects your mental state and affects your mind. And I do believe it’s called they are called spirits, for a reason. And they do disrupt it it can disrupt your discernment as a person in, like, kind of all facets of your life. Not that having one beer is gonna, you know, make you do something crazy, but, it is a serious thing, and it’s worth taking seriously, because the Bible does, mention the sin of drunkenness 70 times, depending on the translation you’re reading. And so, you know, there’s a line there, and the line may be different for everybody. But if if there’s a question in your mind, like, go go searching, go thinking about it. See what God’s trying to say to you about it. If you don’t have a question, you probably don’t have a problem. But, like, if you do have a question, that means there may be a little nudge there to think a little more deeply about this.
Lisa Fields: Mhmm. Yeah. I was talking to a friend recently and they were just sharing that they felt like they needed to, lay off, wine in particular because it was like their coping medicine Mhmm. Mechanism for a stressful day at work. And so the first thing they came did when they got home was drink a glass of wine, to calm down. And they were like, is this something that I want to be a part of my day to day that I need this to relieve stress. And most of the times, with most addictions, when I talk to people, it’s all about coping with levels of stress, trauma, pain, trying to suppress, to give themselves some kind of relief for short periods of time.
Ericka Andersen: Yeah. And, I mean, self medication. I mean, there’s a lot of different terms that I use in the book, you know, because labels often prevent people from getting help. Like, if someone may be like, well, I’m not an alcoholic or I’m not an addict. You know, people, if they don’t feel they fit that label, they may be like, well, then I’m fine. But the reality is that self medication is the label that I identified with most because I used it for my anxiety, for my stress, to numb out, in a way that, was not healthy. It was like, I would say, I take a Tylenol for a headache. I take wine for my anxiety. One of these things is not good. And when you’re I think thinking about the term using alcohol. If you’re drinking alcohol with a meal, okay, if you’re using alcohol for a purpose outside of that, I think that’s when you’re gonna run into issues. And the other thing is, like, can you take it or leave it? If you get wine or you don’t get wine at the end of the day, like, does that upset you? Is this does that make you emotional? And I think we shouldn’t be emotional about alcohol. And if we are, that begs the question, like, is there a deeper, you know, kind of root here, as to why you feel that way? And I think the other thing is to know that this can kind of take hold of you without you realizing it. It can overtake you slowly and then very quickly. And so it is important, I think, to measure and mark how you’re drinking. Even if you feel like it’s not a real problem yet, you’re you never know, like, what kind of circumstances could actually sort of push you over the line, and then, you know, you have a real problem.
Lisa Fields: Mhmm. What other tips would you give for people who are saying, like, man, I’m trying to evaluate this. I I don’t think I’m doing too much, but I I don’t wanna be legalistic. But I also wanna be aware. Mhmm. What what what’s something else that you would share with our audience that you haven’t already communicated?
Ericka Andersen: Yeah. Well, I’m and this is not just to say by the book, but I did write the book in order to provide, sort of a template for evaluating your relationship with alcohol because the book is called Freely Sober. That my goal is not to say, oh, read this and you’ll be sober by the end. My goal in the book is to say, by the end of this book, you’ll never think about alcohol in the same way again. So it’s to change the way that you’re thinking about alcohol, what it is. A lot of times, people have never really dug in to what they think about drinking and why. It’s just like everything else in, like, let’s go back to your childhood. How was alcohol presented, you know, in your home? How was it talked about? You know, what did you think about? What did your parents think about it? Is there addiction in your family? We can go back and sort of evaluate those things in our lives. We get a better understanding of how we got to where we are today, and that can give you wisdom. It can give you, insight into what steps you need to take next. So I would say doing sort of that kind of past evaluation and and digging into, like, almost like keeping a track record of, like, when are you drinking and why. Like, just sort of, like, when I keep a notebook and this is just information, sort of looking at your life and the way that you drink as data, not some emotional, like, I’m bad or I’m good. Just sort of, like, here’s what I’m doing. And then you can start to see patterns and recognize, like, how you are using alcohol. And maybe you find something that is not great, and then you can sort of make some decisions from there. But I would say the most important thing is to not be, condemning of yourself, but to be curious and open and to pray that God would open your heart and mind to what he has to say to you about it, that you would be open to his leading, whatever that may be, as we should be really with everything in our life, when it comes to asking God to guide us.
Lisa Fields: Yeah. When when when a person maybe evaluates and they’re like, man, they’re realizing, oh, I’m using this to numb out. What what things would you, give them as they’re transitioning from using alcohol as as the way to cope with pain Mhmm. Into, like, reality. Right? Because because, you know, we all are coping with something. Right? So it’s not just alcohol. It could some people are serial shoppers. Some people are numbing by scrolling. Mhmm. Some people are numbing by drugs or food. You know, there’s Yeah. There’s various numbing or coping mechanisms. And so when you leave all your coping mechanisms and you’re like, oh, I’m dealing with real life head on, like, that can be very jarring. Yeah. So what what what advice would you give?
Ericka Andersen: Well, I would say, you know, depending on where you are, I mean, it’s really a spectrum in terms of how dependent you are on alcohol. You could be sort of, well, it’s kind of a thing that’s rough, but then you could be over here on this other spectrum. You’re like, I feel like I can’t quit. You know? And so I think depending on where you are, you kinda need sort of beginner tactics or more advanced tactics. But for anyone, I would say, you need to sort of begin to flood your brain and your life with tools and resources. So that would be, I would start with books just because I’m a reader. So I love reading sobriety memoirs and and just sort of getting other people’s stories is is one good place to start. There’s a lot of podcasts out there with people. So just sort of, like, I think giving yourself examples of people that have already done this and and put alcohol out of their life and they’re doing great, I think giving yourself that kind of information is helpful as you get started. I certainly think that you should be making this a primary point of your prayer life and your, you know, I think if if this is a problem in your life, like, this is something to prioritize in terms of, like, what you need to get set straight. And so I would be sharing that, if you can, with a friend or, you know, if you feel comfortable sharing it with friends at church or whoever that can pray for you and that can surround you with support, that’s great. Sometimes the first step, again, depending on where you are in the spectrum, the first step is sharing with someone. So if you are, like, totally keeping this to yourself and doing it alone, it’s always gonna be so much harder. And the more people that can come around you to be supporting you, that’s that’s best, and having the group support. So for me, a really pivotal moment for me was when I joined an online support group, which, you know, can be very intimidating. You’re like, I don’t know if I wanna show my face, which with online support groups, you don’t actually have to show your face right away. You can sort of hide out on Zoom and listen and sort of, you know, get into that conversation. But it was so pivotal for me to hear other people, some of them just like me. I mean, on these meetings that I was on, I had people from you have people that were like, everyone from, like, a 23 year old single mom to, like, a 70 year old guy who had twenty years sober and everything in between. And you just start to realize that lots of people struggle with this in all different ways. It doesn’t make you abnormal. It doesn’t make you immoral. It doesn’t make you unethical. It doesn’t make you anything other than a person that is just trying to deal with the brokenness of this world and and do better. And sometimes we have chosen the wrong things to do that. We just have to figure out how do we redirect this. Now it’s not easy, and a lot of times, you’re gonna mess up. The most people, if they quit drinking, it’s not just, like, one and done. It’s a lot harder than that. And so I think mentally setting yourself up for understanding that this isn’t gonna be just, like, simple, but preparing yourself mentally, giving yourself the tools you need, you know, wrapping it up in prayer and, and and looking to the stories of others who have gone before you to know that, like, this is possible and God has something better for you. That’s a lot that I just answered to you for that question. But but, hopefully, those those are a few things that come to mind.
Lisa Fields: Yeah. I love that you mentioned the support group because it leads to a theme that we’ve been talking about on the podcast is community. Like, the power of community to create transformation in in one’s life, And that’s what you’re communicating. Like, we don’t get through these hardships alone. We get through it with other people. And sometimes community, I I I really, had a post about community, and I got some pushback because people had been hurt in church. And so the only thing they hear when they hear community is church. Like, you know, and it’s like, oh, no. Community could be outside of Oh, yeah. Church environments. It doesn’t have to be relegated just to church. Now, I do think church community is helpful. But for some different things, you might need outside groups
Ericka Andersen: to act as that community for you to get past certain certain challenges. Yeah. Actually, I remember you guys you guys did, Church Hurt, like, series a couple years ago, Jude three project, didn’t you? I I watched some of that, because my last book is actually about church. So, anyways, yeah, no. It doesn’t I I mean, God God works through all I think God works through all community. I mean, I think regardless of whether or not you’re a Christian, we were creating God’s image and we were created for community. Like, as image bearers, like, I think he made us that way regardless of whether you recognize him as god or not. And so I certainly have been helped through I was part of a secular group. It was called The Luckiest Club. And, it was great. For the time that I used it, I I did it for about two years. And then, you know, that’s when I sort of realized I was I did want something that was more faith based. But, you know, we can use all of these tools to help ourselves. And so I would say any kind of community where you can get people that understand what you’re going through, I mean, that’s true of everything in our lives. It’s so powerful and it makes such a difference. I mean, I would show up to those meetings and be like, oh, so all 100 people on this meeting right now are all not drinking today. And it seems like a simple thing, but it really was empowering to know that and to know that I wasn’t doing it alone. And also, this particular, group that I was in, like, they have, like, five or six meetings a day. So, like, if you’re just starting out and you’re like, I just wanna, like, get this support, you can just hop on there, like, five times if you want and just be there and hear other people’s stories. And, you know, it’s when you’re trying to do it completely by yourself, not any support calls. You’re not telling anybody. You’re just sorta, like, basically white knuckling it. That doesn’t work. It I don’t know anybody that that’s worked for. And and that’s what what that’s what I tried doing the first several times I tried to quit. I was just basically doing it all by myself. So I would say just open your mind and heart up to, like, where can you get support? And also know I mean, this isn’t a big thing for me. I was like, well, I can’t tell anybody because, like, what if I do drink again? And then I don’t know. That’s not that is don’t let that stop you because people do that all the time, and then they have a support group to go back to. The journey is the journey, and you just have to do what you have to do because, like, you’re not gonna get there until you get here first. And it’s all just, like, part of the part of the the process. And so don’t let fears like that stop you.
Lisa Fields: Yeah. I love that you you said that because there’s this idea if if one communicates something, then they have to get to perfection quickly. Mhmm. Right. Like, I and I think that’s the social media culture too feeds that. Like, we we live in a very, like, show and tell kind of world right now where it’s like, I have to show you if if I got this revelation today, I have to share it tomorrow. And then I have to show the world, and then they’re expecting consistency because you gave this, like, big announcement. Right? Mhmm. And so that creates within us even more angst of, like, can I share it with anybody? Well, you might not need to tell the world. You might not need to post about it. But there are groups of people that you can share where it’ll be safe and you could grow.
Ericka Andersen: Yeah. I mean, it’s like it it really depends on your personality. I didn’t share about it for a while on social media. Now I am a person that really enjoys social media and I share a lot of my life. Like, I write a lot on Substack. Like, I’m very open with things. And I think that God has given me a calling to be very out loud about this for myself, but that’s not for everybody necessarily. And so keeping it within a smaller group, I think that’s better probably safer, just for your own emotional and mental health as you’re walking through it. You don’t want those outside expectations. You just need to walk your path without other people, especially when you put it on social media. It’s like people that you don’t really know. Like, I I I think what is the term I’ve or the the phrasing I’ve heard, like, people should sort of earn the right to hear your story. And if strangers on social media have certainly not earned that right, and if you’re not comfortable with that, that’s totally fine. After a while, for me, it was helpful. I wanted to encourage people. I wanted that to me, it was helpful to that to me, it was helpful to have some of that accountability, but everyone’s different.
Lisa Fields: Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I love how you say it took you some time to, like, relax like, oh, this is something that’s, helpful to share because I think some people with anything, they don’t give themselves that any kind of space or any kind of buffer with things that are very that could be, like, traumatic or painful. It’s like you’re welcoming outside voices and it’s it can be re traumatized.
Ericka Andersen: Yeah. I think you you wanna get sort of solid on where you are before you start sharing with the world and inviting those other people’s opinions in.
Lisa Fields: Yeah. Is there anything else about the book, Freely Sober, that you wanna share with our audience, that we haven’t discussed?
Ericka Andersen: I would just say, you know, just to give you an idea an overview of really what the book is, it is kind of part memoir, so there’s a lot of my own personal story in there. It’s part journalism. There’s a lot of information about how alcohol, has affected us societally, historically, scientifically. So there’s a lot of good research in there too that you’re gonna you’re just gonna learn a lot about this and maybe find it very interesting, like, things like how alcohol marketing has impacted how much we’ve been drinking. Like, women, for example, have, the rate of women dying of alcohol related deaths has basically tripled in the past twenty years, and that’s in congruence with the rise in very, female targeted alcohol marketing. And so it’s interesting to consider, like, how we have been subconsciously influenced by things in the culture without even realizing it. Mhmm. And then also, you know, just on that note, how alcohol is affecting us as women in deeper, more devastating ways than men. Like, it really is. Our bodies are different, and they do they are impacted, in worse ways in terms of the disease and the long term impact and all of those things. So there’s some of that in there. And then, you know, the third part being sort of the self help side of it, just giving you sort of a pathway to sort of, like, let’s consider this for our own life. Like, let’s think deeply about this in a way that maybe we haven’t before and giving you a bit of a guidebook to just walk through this issue with scripture. I mean, it’s full of scripture and, pertinent questions so that by the end of the book, you know, you’re you have a clear vision of what this means for you, what it means, for those around you, and, like, for the church and for for society. Like, it’s it’s a really a whole picture of of, like, a snapshot of how this affects us, entirely. And I think you won’t walk away without feeling like you learned something, that you gained some insight and that you have a little bit more wisdom when it comes to how you wanna be using alcohol in your own life.
Lisa Fields: Mhmm. The last question I’ll ask you is for for Christian women, what makes this conversation a little bit more nuanced?
Ericka Andersen: Mhmm. Yeah. I think I think for Christian women, and this is really kind of, like, one of the things I started the book with is there is almost a a another layer of fear or shame that comes into admitting that you’re struggling with this. Because when people looked at me, for example, who is known, you know, in my youth, to go on mission trips until, you know, I’m, like, volunteering in the nursery at church, and I’m leading bible study, and I’m, you know, just sort of known, like, there’s sort of a picture of who I am. It was really scary to come out and be like, yeah. I’m struggling with alcohol. People didn’t know. Nobody would have told you that that was a problem for me. Nobody would have recognized it. And so I think we can we’re really good at hiding it. And we have sort of, quote, reputations to uphold. And so I think it can be harder and a little scarier even to come out and admit that, as a Christian woman. But that is why I’m doing this because I don’t want that to be the case, and I don’t want people to feel like they have to hide or to be ashamed. As I said before, I think alcoholism or addiction or dependence or whatever you wanna call it, we are seeking good things. We are seeking the good things that God has for life and we for our lives. And we have found them we’ve been seeing them in the wrong thing. And so that’s just a brokenness that we all have. And like you were saying, like, everybody has something they go to. Alcohol is not more wrong or more, shameful than anything else, even though I feel like it’s been made to to appear that way in society. And so, I just encourage Christian women, if you’re struggling with this, there’s no shame. Come forward and recognize that, like, your church family should be there for you and not there to judge you. And from my own experience, like, that is exactly what happens. I think there are certainly places where people have been judged and have had bad experiences, and that’s not okay. But I do think that there is an awareness more today about addiction than there ever has been in the past. And, we’re seeing more and more inviting and comforting and loving and encouraging places within the church than we have before.
Lisa Fields: Thank you, Erica. I think your story is powerful, and I’m glad you’ve designed to to share it with the world, through your book. Tell our audience, how they could get your your resource.
Ericka Andersen: Yeah. So you can buy Freelee Sober on Amazon. It’s there. You can also if you wanna learn a little bit more about it before you buy it, you can go to freeleesober.com, freeleesober.com. And then the last thing I’ll say is that if you are not quite ready to buy the book, but if you wanna just kind of be curious about this, you can go to sobrietycurious.com, and I have, like, a download for anybody that’s interested. It’s got, like, podcast recommendations, book recommendations, tips, tricks, all the things. So sobrietycurious.com, you can get that for free.
Lisa Fields: Awesome. That’s amazing. How can people get in contact with you on social?
Ericka Andersen: Erica underscore anderson is me on Instagram and pretty much everywhere else is just my name. So just note the spelling. It’s it’s kinda spelled weird. Erica underscore anderson.
Lisa Fields: Well, thank you, Erica. This has been a rich conversation. I’ve enjoyed it. Thank you all for listening. Get Erica’s book and, you remember you catch all our past episodes wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, a YouTube channel, website. All our resources are available at ju3project.org. Remember, I have a new book coming out, When Heroes Fall, on June 16. So you could preorder that wherever books are sold. Remember, we cannot do what we do without generous support from people like you. So consider being a monthly partner or one time giver at g3project.org hitting by hitting that donate tab. We’re so thankful that you decided to tune in. Until next time, grace and peace and God bless.