Rasool Berry: What’s going on? What’s going on? We we good? Yeah. Hope I’m not gonna ask you what time y’all went to bed last night, but we’re here now. I’m Rasul Barry. I have the incredible privilege of, facilitating this really important, conversation about provision. I I actually read, When Faith Disappoints last night. I couldn’t put it down. Incredible book. If you haven’t picked it up yet, you have to get it. But in it, one of the things that, Lisa mentions is that one of her favorite scriptures is Psalm 73. The psalmist Asaph declared his he had almost lost his footing and his foot was slipping when he saw the prosperity of the wicked. And I think that that realness, that rawness, that emotion is something we can all relate to when it’s like, yo, my pockets are light. And on top of that, I’m seeing people that don’t love god, you know, and they’re seemingly doing quite well. So, you know, let’s get into this and please, you know, introduce yourselves. But also, like, we wanna kick it off with this question. How do you sustain your trust in god’s provision during financial uncertainty? So explain you know, introduce yourself, and then let’s just jump right into it. This is gonna be Let’s go again.
Ekemini Uwan: Good morning, everyone. My name is Akemi Nguyen. I’m a public theologian, cofounder of Truth Stable podcast, chief operating officer of Truth Stable Foundation and doer of a lot of different things. And so I’m glad to be here this morning. Russell, do you want me to do you want everybody else to go ahead and introduce themselves and then we’ll launch? Yeah. Let’s do that. Let’s swing around and then we’ll go back and ask the question. Yep. Good morning. I’m Danielle Brown. I’m the senior pastor of the Shiloh Baptist Church in Plainfield, New Jersey.
Panelist: I’m Mike Waters from Dallas, Texas, Abundant Life AME Church.
Dr. Michael Walters: Bobby Manning, the Heights Church right here in the DMV. Alright.
Rasool Berry: So yeah. So let let’s get into it because I think this question of provision is very personal in a lot of ways. Right? So, you know, I mean, Akemi, I know that you as a public theologian, as someone who has, in a lot of ways, really trusted God to meet your needs in not a traditional job situation type of way. Like, how how have you thought through and experienced this struggle with provision?
Ekemini Uwan: Yeah. So definitely a nontraditional path, that I did not choose, but God chose for me. You know, when I think about, you know, how do, I may maintain my faith that god will sustain, you know, my needs, I think about, the fact that we have to look back. Right? So I call it flashback grace. You know, where god is often telling us sometimes sometimes, God tells us not to look back, but then sometimes, God does tell us to look back. Like, in Deuteronomy, it well, Exodus 20. You know, remember how I brought you out. Remember how I delivered you. Right? I think even in Deuteronomy thirty two seven in there, God says, you know, look back. Remember the former things, the things that I’ve done for you. Because when we look back and we see what god has done for us in the past, even if our present looks a little tight and funky, we can look back at god’s track record and see his faithfulness. And so even right now, even if you don’t know how you’re gonna pay rent, you know how you’re gonna put food on the table, you know that god is still presently working in your present circumstance, but then also in the future. But the thing about us too is that because we tend to be fickle, and we forget God, when we forget God, we turn to idols. Right? And we know the temptation, that that there is to actually put our faith in money, to put our faith in contracts, and to put faith in our connections. Right? And so, there’s a real need, for us to remember, to exercise that flashback grace. And then we can also, in prayer, ask god to you, God, remember me. Mhmm. Remember me. When God because when God remembers, he acts. When God remembered Rachel, that is when, you know, the child of promise came. Right? Amen. When God remember Hannah, that is when her child of promise came. So we have to remember that, it’s not only to look back to see what God has done, but we can also say, God, remember me. Yeah. And so that and I I I’ll be praying, God, remember me. Okay? I ain’t got no shame doing doing that. So that’s what sustains me. That’s what helps me. Got it.
Dr. Danielle Brown: Yeah. Kinda on that same vein that at this point in my journey, I’m drawing from prior experience, right, that that I’ve seen God provide before. And so when I kind of come up on a moment where I’m a little uncertain, but then also maintaining an open mind, right, that my idea of provision and provision may not always align. Right? Okay. Expound on that a little bit. Right. So so I have to remind myself to be sober that abundance, right? Provision does not always mean abundance. Right. Contrary to, the hermeneutic of the last probably twenty five years around provision, overflow is not the only manifestation of provision. And the miraculous is not the only method. Sometimes provision is just enough.
Rasool Berry: Good. Right. Alright. We’re gonna we’re gonna hold it there, and we’re gonna just I’m sure we’re gonna circle back on that one. Well, I think we’re we’re building the echo,
Panelist: around this conversation because for me, remembrance is also important. And I think about my favorite Hebrew words, zakar, that idea of remembrance that breeds action. So when God says, I remember Abraham, it’s not just remembering the man, but remembering the promises made. And therefore, God acts on what God remembers. But we also have a role and responsibility in helping each other remember God’s promises. And so that’s the power of testimony as we share together, as we reflect together on what God has done for us. And it is a true blessing, and sometimes I think it’s missing in houses of worship. It’s missing as a part of our spiritual discipline, the willingness and vulnerability to share our stories with one another. But it’s always powerful when you’re in a space and you’re going through something, that someone else has already gone through Yeah. And they can infuse in you the hope of overcoming based upon their experience enough to to, you know, lord, help me to hold down. Yeah. Right? Those testimonies allow us to gain a certain dexterity and strength to press through. So remembrance is important, but how we help each other remember the faithfulness of God is also important.
Dr. Michael Walters: Since y’all took point one of my sermon, let me move quickly to point two. No. Long memory is, I think, is is is super important and and what I was gonna say. Secondly, though, another part of it is also present perspective. Because a lot of times, we’ll we’ll need we well, a lot of times, we need to think back to what God has done. So sometimes we just need to look around at what God is doing, because sometimes we get fixated on what God is not doing, that we miss what he is doing. And, one way that God has convicted me in the past is I would be praying for provision, and God will be like, I already gave you that, but you spent it on Jordan. And so you Uh-oh. Uh-oh. You really need to think about what okay. Y’all need somebody. So second Corinthians, Paul is talking about generosity, and he and he uses this terminology. He says, he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will multiply your seed. Stop. Seed is what I sow. Bread is what I consume. The problem with many of us is that we consume everything, and we treat our seed as if it’s bread. And sometimes I believe God wants us to really look around because when he provides, he’s not just providing for our need, he’s providing for our purpose. And and we need to we we probably need to think about how much we consume what he gave us to sow. Another aspect of it also is faith in a God who provides needs is inextricably linked to faith in a in the local community of faith in acts two where it says they they were because they were generous, nobody went without. And I think when church is operating the way church is supposed to work, number one, I’m not going through my financial difficulties alone because I have the community of faith there to to support me in prayer, but I should also have the community of faith around me to support me in provision as well. And when when people come to our church and say, well, we you know, the church didn’t help me. Like, okay. Wait a minute. Did you say anything? Because because not only do we have a benevolence fund, we got small groups. Yeah. We got life groups. If you’re if you’re connected in community, why does nobody know
Rasool Berry: that you have this need? And so just a couple of Alright. And thanks for that. So some people caught some strays, so I hope you’re wearing a bulletproof vest on that, you know,
Dr. Michael Walters: Jordan comment. Self inflicted wounds, bro. Self inflicted wounds.
Rasool Berry: But, on this line of remembrance, which was a thread throughout, let’s get specific. Let’s have a little testimony service. Can we do that right now? Because I think this is especially one of those issues where even in the text, there’s so many specific tangible examples that we see of God’s faithfulness. You mentioned Rachel for one. I I I love for us to just kinda go around and see how you have personally witnessed God’s provision unexpectedly. Like, I remember the first time I’d kinda tried and tasted and saw that the Lord was good. I was young in my faith and I was, at church and all I had was a $10 bill in my pocket. Like, that to my name. And the I felt the Lord telling me to give it, and I’m like, I don’t need alright. So I gave it got a ride home, and when I went into my bedroom, there was a $10 bill on the bed. Right? And that was like the first, like, instance of like, okay, God, you you you got me. And then from there, it just kinda continues to grow. I’m I’m curious to hear, like, what are some examples of you actually seeing God work that has kinda been the part that you look back to and go, God is faithful?
Ekemini Uwan: You know, I love that example, Russell, because it it taps on what Danielle said, actually. You gave the 10, then you got home, and you got another 10. It wasn’t abundance, but god gave you exactly what you needed. Right? Yeah. So I I just love that that I thought it was perfect. I have so many examples, y’all. God has really been faithful to me. You know? I mean, true really and truly. I can tell you that the lord by god’s grace, the lord has given me given me three cars. Mhmm. That’s not even my most recent example. I’m gonna get to my recent example. But three cars, I had lost long story short, lost my corporate job, used to do pharmaceutical sales, different you know, I was saved and believed in you know, anyway, but the lord was redirecting my whole life. Okay? And I won a car that was at my at my church. They were doing a raffle. The Lord gave me a car. It was ’97 Infiniti q 45. And that car lasted me from California to Philadelphia. That car lasted me from 2011 or maybe ’20 maybe it’s 2012 that I wanted, till about 2016 ish, 2017 through many Philly winters. Okay? Oh. Okay. Then the Lord moved on somebody else’s heart to give me their old car. And then and then and then another friend gave me another car. Right? There was no gap and no loss. And, actually, this year, I need a new car. So come on, God. What you about to do? What you about to do? Remember me. Okay. So but no. But seriously, I the Lord has been faithful. But even just recently up until two weeks ago, I came home from church. A friend of mine, good good good friend texted me, how much is your rent? And I was like, you wanna know my rent. But I was like, she’s my good friend, no matter. So I I gave her the the amount, and she’s like, the Lord’s been speaking to me about giving you paying your rent and and just just giving you rent money. And she’s like and so I just and so she and she zailed me the amount two weeks ago. That just out the blue, God’s grace, you know, just so the Lord provides, you know. That was just two weeks ago. You said that prayer that you pray is remember me. Right? Remember me. I’m just trying to help us make sure we get we’re praying the same way. And I wasn’t praying I wasn’t praying about that. You know, I wasn’t praying for that. I wasn’t praying about about that, but the Lord it was that the Lord had put put that on her heart Yeah. To do that. And she zapped it to me. I was like, oh my you know, I was just like, thank you. What can I say but thank you? You know, and thank the Lord. So so those are my, you know, many examples, but that was the most recent one of God’s faithfulness toward me.
Dr. Michael Walters: Mhmm. Mhmm. I I’ll just reflect on the time that my because this isn’t a a money falling out of heaven kinda situation. I mean, if somebody wants to bless me with a car, cool. My son, Levi, was born almost sixteen years ago. He’ll be 16 next month. My wife, we had we had just moved back to the DMV finishing up seminary, meager, preacher salary. And, and my wife was a teacher. She, when Levi was born, he was born with special needs. And my wife, she already had an idea that she might wanna come home and be a stay at home mom when he was born with special needs. I want keeping that woman out of that house with that with that boy. The question is, how are we gonna afford it? Because it was tight with both of our salaries. But I believe we both heard God say this is this is the right decision. And so it did not work in our budget. We couldn’t afford to do it. We just knew that this is what God was calling us to do. And so long story short, never missed a meal, never missed a bill, never missed a tithe. Spoiler alert. I’m the guy on the panel that believes that the tithe is for today. I believe in tithing. And the lord was just faithful. He met needs in ways that we cannot explain and don’t know. We just know that, that when we went back, there was there was oil. When we went back, god’s god was sustaining. And then, it was probably about a year later. I I walk into my office and I get a letter, and it’s from the COO of of our church. And they said, yeah. You’re you’re getting a $12,000 raise. I said, what? And so it was just God’s sustaining power over that time simply being obedient even when it doesn’t make sense. Amen. That’s good.
Panelist: My second child, I was born with, congenital heart disease, that required surgery at the age of four days old. And I can literally say that I’ve seen my child’s beating heart. Because as the incision is made, you have to provide time for the swelling to go down. So after that first surgery, as we saw her and as they didn’t expect her to make it, my wife and I gathered around in that Operating Room and were able to see her heart beating. On the day of her surgery, we went down to have prayer And we’ve gotten to know most of the attendants that had been watching over her over those four days. But at the day of her first surgery, there was a nurse there who we did not know, had never seen before. And it created some anxiety. Who is this person on such an important day caring for our child? But before we could open our mouths to speak, the nurse attendant turned to us and she said, you must be Hope’s parents. My name is Faith, and I’m taking care of Hope today. And that became a testimony for us because faith took care of our hope as we received a bill for nearly a million dollars regarding her surgery. And, of course, by faith, knowing that this was necessary, there was no other options. My wife and I came together in prayer. And I’ll never forget the day my wife informed me that the hospital had informed her that the bill had been paid in full. And so, certainly, faith took care of our hope. And so each and every time we have since found ourself with a insurmountable obstacle, God reminds us of what God has already done. Yes. And the same God that did it before Yes. Can do it again.
Rasool Berry: Faith takes care of hope. There’s my my my. Every year I look for a b three Hammond organ I know. I know. The capital turn around. And every year they disappoint me. We Has faith taken care of your hope? Well, let’s put some addresses to this, you know. And we’re gonna get into this a little bit later, but we also know that people can sometimes go in astray in, you know, claiming promises that aren’t there, but also misappropriating things that God is trying to say. But, when I think about the Sermon on the Mount, right, Jesus’s most famous sermon, you know, we see it in Matthew five through seven. And right there in the middle, he talks about, don’t worry about what you’re going to eat, what you’re going to drink. You know, it says the unbelievers, you know, stress about these things. But he says your father in heaven provides. Right? Even, you know, his eyes on the sparrow. He says, seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and these things will be added unto you. Matthew six thirty three. I’m curious about what are the passages that have been
Dr. Danielle Brown: the anchor for you, you know, that have sustained you in these times. Well, I’ll jump in there because that has been a a passage for me. Testimony time. I didn’t I didn’t tell mine. I’m gonna jump in and go ahead and tell it on this question. But, I before I was in full time ministry, I was an educator. And so I was young, a master’s degree I’m teaching, but the Lord called me to full time ministry. I knew it was gonna happen. I got a call, to relocate home, to to my home church. And, what was a full time position when I arrived was part time. Something to the tune I mean, it’s my story. I’ll tell it. Something to the tune of, like, 30 something thousand dollar pay cut. But I knew God said to make that shift. And as I kept my head down and and I think I see things more clearly in hindsight now, And sometimes I wonder. Right? You know what Mahalia Jackson, my soul looks back and wonder how I got over. But the Lord provided. That as I sought the kingdom of God, as I put my head down and, endeavor to serve the Lord, I did not miss meals, I did not my Jordans didn’t wear out,
Dr. Michael Walters: you know. You used to devour, reverend.
Dr. Danielle Brown: And and then the Lord began to open doors, Right? That that didn’t maybe it did not come in the ways that I thought, that I thought it was supposed to come just from that one place.
Dr. Michael Walters: Yes.
Dr. Danielle Brown: The lord opened doors for me to preach itinerantly or to, hold this job. People were calling me to say, hey. We we have a position. We need you. We need someone who has your skill set. And so, for several years, fifteen years. Wow. Wow. I was never made whole. I’m gonna thank God for a call, to the Shiloh Baptist Church. But for for fifteen years, I never made up from one place what I lost. Right? Yet, God never let me go without. And in the most unexpected ways, and still, as the pastor of Shiloh for the last three years, in a couple weeks, we’ll celebrate three years. I went to a church that was had been declining for for some time, financially, numerically. And there were some things that we had to put in place infrastructure wise that require money because the work that we do requires money. And so as we were planning and trying to be diligent, because the church started to grow, but we didn’t have all of the resources, just as quickly as I would say, we need x, y, and z. My comptroller would call me, hey, pastor. I just got a call, and so and so is gonna drop off a check for $25,000. And they said, put it wherever the pastor wants it to go. I have seen it over and over again over the last three years. Alright. And so but that has been seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. And God is faithful that when you commit your way to Lord, God has a way Yeah. Of making ways.
Rasool Berry: Yeah. Yeah. Amen.
Panelist: Reminded of, several years ago, one of our bishops in the church invited me to be the, Christian education bible study lecturer and preacher, for their conference. And the reason this is an important memory for me is that this was the first gathering of this conference in this region following hurricane Katrina. And the majority of the persons who had traveled to the Itta Bena, Mississippi, where Mississippi Valley State is located, many of them were still living in trailers. Congregants were scattered literally all across the country. Some came back to Mississippi just for this gathering. And in the midst of that significant loss, I had to inquire, god, what is the word for this moment that doesn’t trivialize the experience? It’s not just a hoop and a holler, but actually ministers that are concerns of those gathered. And I engaged a text that I’d never engaged before, the story whereby Jesus tell the disciples to go fishing. And as they go fishing and pull forth a fish, there is gold in, the mouth, enough to provide for the needs. And the sermon I preached was simply entitled God Will Provide. And the stretching part of that text for me then and now is that God’s provisions supersede natural realities. That if you believe in a supernatural god, then oftentimes, god’s provision is supernatural. That god is not limited to, constrained by the circumstances, obstacles, and difficulties of our day, but that God can move beyond that to meet our needs. And that sometimes, you gotta pray by faith and believe in God, that God will do something that is so radically opposed to everything that makes logical sense, yet it still meets the needs of that time. And so it it was really a stretching of my faith. Right? If we believe that god will provide, God doesn’t just provide through your job. Right? God doesn’t just, provide through some, refund that’s there. Sometimes God moves in a way that even after God has done it, even after you’ve borne witness to it, it still doesn’t make sense. You still you still don’t know where it comes from. Right? It’s it’s that reality. He’s saying this very quickly. He said reality of manna. Right? In the Peran Desert, manna, which literally translates, what is this? Each and every morning, I’m surrounded by what is this daily bread to meet my needs for right now. And I don’t know how it got here. All I know is from the time I went to bed last night to the time my eyes woke up open this morning, what I needed has been provided for. And so, you know, in that space, in that place with so many who had lost so much and, the need was so great, the word for that moment was, God’s sustaining power and God’s revision may in fact come from a place that is beyond your present imagination and understanding. But, certainly, God will provide.
Ekemini Uwan: Amen. You know, when I think about some texts that, you know, help me think about stewardship and god’s provision, I have one really obscure one. I just love the old testament. No shade to the new testament. But, you know, I I love them both. But second Kings chapter six, the axe head floating. I think about that very obscure text. I think sometimes we don’t really know what to do with it. Right? And so but I love when there’s a sermon on. I’m like, yes. Preach on this. I think about the company of the prophets and, and how they’re like, man, like, Elisha, we we need a bigger place to gather. You know? And so they they went and they had to go, they had their access and they were, cutting down trees, right, to build build a place, for them to gather and do the things of God and whatnot. And, one of the, the prophets, you know, as they they were cutting it, the axe head fell, you know, into the water. He’s like, oh, no, my lord. Like, this is borrowed. Right? So that talks to us about stewardship. Right? That the man was so, shocked, so dismayed that the axe head that the axe that he had borrowed from a friend is gone. Right? And so that talks to us about God giving us things and people giving us things and how we ought to care for other people’s things as if they are our own. Right? And treat it with the same amount of care as we would as we want somebody else to do that for us. That’s one thing that I think about when I see the stewardship thing. But I think about the provision. Right? We’re thinking, okay, in acts, everybody else, the among the company prophets, the prophets also has access. So what’s really the big deal? Right? But I just love that, God’s heart for us is that he cares about every little detail. Right? And we know that the prophet stands as a representative representative of God. Right? And so Elisha just, you know, does a miracle, and he causes, you know, the axe head to float. And I just I think about those, I I I call them axe head prayers. You know, just tiny little prayers, you know, that sometimes they’re throwaway prayers that we think of, nah, I kinda got ollie oop, but I don’t know if God’s really gonna answer this. You know, but I’m just gonna pray it anyway. And God does it. And because we don’t remember, we forget that God answered the little ax head prayers that we that we we threw up, you know, before the altar of God. And so for me, it’s always trying to remember that God really does care about every detail of our lives. And if God cares about the axe head, you know, that was borrowed, then surely God cares about putting clothes on my back, putting food in my belly, keeping me in good health to do the work of ministry that God has called me to do. And so so I offer that, text, and I invite you to go and read that passage.
Dr. Danielle Brown: Good. I think there’s there’s also, and and pastor Manning talked about sometimes God has provided, but you spent it. Right? So so I also think about that, Genesis passage where, Joseph interprets Pharaoh’s dream. And he’s saying, hey. There’s gonna be seven years of plenty, but then seven years of famine. And so in times of plenty, we we have to be mindful. Even if famine never comes, right, we should still plan for it. Because famine may be, right, that that when we are storing up, it may be for someone else. It may not be that there’s famine in the entire land, but there might be famine in my brother or my sister’s world. Right? And because we’re all in this together, right, this whole existence is in community, in my days of plenty, I should not spend every dime I get. That that everything we have, doctor Asores, doctor DeForest Vasasores, created DIFRE. And there’s two principles in in his model, about stewardship, that there is compensatory spending. Right? We have to ask ourselves, why am I spending like, what is this spending doing? And I think that for a lot of us, when we get god provides and then we squander it because we’re trying to make up for other deficits. Right? So we need clothes. Instead of, going to to Target, we’re gonna go to the Gucci store because there’s something about wearing high end stuff that makes us feel more valuable. Right? Or or that we’ve arrived, that that that’s what arrived looks like or what have you. And then confused spending. That that we, squander what we have because we’re not sure what we’re purchasing. So the Lord gave, you your cars. Right? But then some of us go, we buy cars, we don’t understand interest rates. So there are some very practical things that also contribute to how we steward what God gives us. Right? And then this, don’t spend every dime that you get because the borrower is a slave to the lender. That’s that’s proverbs. And who is signing up to be a slave? Though, you know, those days are over, good and over. Right? But we do it often because we are not there are times that God provides miraculously. Other times, it’s up to our own common sense with what God has already given That’s right. To make better decisions. That’s right. That’s so good.
Dr. Michael Walters: Since we’re looking at addresses, I, hopefully, I don’t mess up anybody’s favorite verse, but, we we commit to memory, Philippians four thirteen. Uh-huh. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And we often use that scripture, in a Superman kind of a context. Like, I can leap tall buildings in a single bound through Christ who strengthens me. When in reality, the context of that verse, if you pick up at verse 11, it says, not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am to be content. I know in all things, I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, how to be abased and to abound, how to abound and to suffer need. Then he says, I can do all things through Christ. This is a this is actually a financial provision passage that I have learned. He says it’s a skill I’ve learned that in whatever state I’m in, whether I have a lot or a little bit, I’ve grown this skill of being able to steward what I have, handle it if it’s low, handle it if it and I know a lot of us have been burned by, by what we’ve come to label prosperity gospel, and we heard the preach on TV say money cometh. That’s true. It’s just only half true. Money cometh and money goeth. And I need to be able to handle both of those seasons, the seasons where money cometh and the seasons where money goeth. And that’s what Philippians four thirteen speaks to. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me in low seasons and seasons of abundance.
Rasool Berry: Well, this is a good time. We have about ten minutes left to just invite you, remind you to please text in questions. We would definitely wanna hear from you and, and interact. So I’m just gonna lob up a couple more and then we’ll we’ll transition. But that that’s a a a great place really to start because you’ve kinda brought up several things. You know, one, a key part of that passage that people often miss is he learned the secret was contentment. Right? And when you’re not content, you end up starting to splurge, someone could say, or or or spend to excess. And especially in the society consumeristic as it is that we live in, it can kind of cause us to feel like, well, you deserve that. You know? So and to be real, especially if, like, many of us, like, I’ll speak for myself, coming from a family that oftentimes we had lack, when you finally have the means, even if it’s on a plastic card that you gotta play a monthly minimum balance on or whatever, you feel like, okay. I finally have power to do this. You can. And and it’s not lost. I mean, one other layer I’m a put on this is that in the old testament in particular, the idol, like, Baal was very much related to financial provision and who are we gonna trust for rain and and agriculture and crops and things like that. So in light of all those things, how do systemic financial barriers and economic disparities impact our view of God’s promise of provision?
Panelist: I wish it impacted more. I think that, unfortunately, the church in America does not have the critical consciousness always operating to recognize the systems that are at work that bring about sickness, death, and disease. Paulo Freire in in his book, The Pedagogy of the Oppressed, talks about raising that critical consciousness by allowing oppressed people to ruminate on the sources of those oppression and thereby move towards practice, reflection, moving to action to bring about transformation. And I think it’s very important because there is a large portion of our community who have been demonized because of their poverty, when in fact the systems that keep them impoverished should be demonized. And when you consider the racial history of this country and all the harms that has been done, any church with critical consciousness should be moved, to attack those systems. And we’re talking about a long arc of history. Right? We can go all the way back to the Homestead Act of 1862. Right? A 160 acres given to white families. 81,000,000 white people in this country still benefit financially from the Homestead Act of 1862. We think about the Social Security Act of 1935. There was a provision in that act that said that if you were a domestic worker or if you worked in agriculture, you cannot benefit from Social Security. And could which was an intentional way of writing them out of that provision. You look at the GI Bill, right, which was used to help breed and bring about the middle class in America. Less than 2% of black people were able to benefit from the GI Bill. And when you consider today, over fifty years removed from the Kerner Commission report of 1968, there are fewer black homeowners in America today than there were in 1968. And those who are homeowners, their homes are devalued by billions of dollars collectively simply because they are a black person living in that home. And so if we continue to only demonize, I mean, in in misguidedly so, those who are impacted by poverty versus the systems that keep them impoverished, we cannot collaborate together towards liberation. And I think that’s a growing edge possibly, for the church. You you can’t, in this country, really work your way out of poverty. That’s a misleading. That’s a myth. You have to you have to have twenty years of no hiccups, of no issues in order to move yourself from a place of poverty, right, to a place of of of of some flourishing. And that just didn’t happen. I I just think that we have a call and responsibility. I think it comes from God, right, to go out and to fight against the systems that bring about death, disease, and poverty, to bring towards true liberation. And I know we don’t have a lot of time, but there’s a model for this in scripture called jubilee. Yes, lord. When Jesus says that the spirit of the lord is upon me because he’s anointed me to preach good news to the poor, recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to declare, what, the year of the Lord’s favor. That’s the only time in the New Testament that Jubilee appears. And so there is a biblical model for liberation, and yet it’s not something that we’ve pressed into. My prayer is that as a church, we can see that a part of our Christian call is not just a shout and a holler in church, but sometimes we gotta take our shout and holler out to city hall, in the congress, and to fight for the liberation of our people.
Ekemini Uwan: Amen. No. I’m I’m I’m really glad if I can because, you know, Bishop well, he done already laid down the groundwork really because I was just coming up. First of all, Proverbs thirteen twenty two, the wealth of the wicked is laid up for the just. I absolutely believe that. I live that as a reparations activist. That’s why I advocate for reparations on the global it’s part of it, on a global and a domestic local scale. Right? And so all I would add, to what my brother just said is that we have to also account for the ways in which, not only, the Transatlantic slave, but also colonialism, right, has impacted and impoverished our our people. Walter Rodney wrote, you know, how Europe underdeveloped Africa, right, and the ways in which that continues to permeate through the continent and within the diaspora, right, because of the Berlin conference and the way they carved up, the whole continent with these folk fake boundary lines. We were just talking about this right now. Right? Right before we came up right before we came up here. And so, I I I believe repertory justice is due, long overdue to all Africans and people of African descent. And so that that is what I work towards, and that’s what I move toward. And then also the church’s responsibility in that. So that’s the Catholic and president, Protestant churches too. Churches owe a debt, and and and that there’s no getting around that. You know, there is absolutely no getting around that. I would also say just I would wanna lift up Genesis 16, Hagar, who is my personal shero, in this in the scriptures. I wrote about this in the truth table book. And I I cite Dolores, Williams, who wrote, Sisters in Wilderness, about the house of bondage that Hagar, you know, was in. Right? And how she fled that because of the abuse, the rape that she experienced, the forced marriage that she, was, entangled in, and how she went to that desert certain to die. You know? And then she had an encounter with God. And then and then God told you know, this angel of the Lord told her to go back to the house of bondage. And I’m like, what? Why? You know? And in some ways, I think about Hagar as a representative, really, for our people. Right? Here in these yet to be United States, this house of bondage. Right? We’re free ish. Right? And and talking and and thinking about the facts that, Dolores Williams says that god was giving her a survival survival strategy by going back to that house of bondage. Because there was no way she was gonna survive in the desert, you know, with Ishmael. That wasn’t gonna happen. She had to go back, use the resources that Abraham that Abraham and Sarai had for her and her child to continue, to live and to continue to move on. Right? So it might not be abundant, but it’s just what you need. Not the most perfect conditions, but yet we continue, you know, to push, to strive, to move forward, and do what we need to do. And I know that’s not a you know, that’s not we don’t really like that. Right? Because we’re like, overcomers and, well, you know, sometimes it just we just getting by. And sometimes we just getting over. And so those are the the two, you know, aspects, that I would like to just wanted to lift up in this in our moment. You know,
Dr. Danielle Brown: I’m I’m a release this here. Right? Please. But but, you know, I struggle with that that Hagar text too, that go back. To go back. And and and here’s one of the things that I’ve I’ve wondered. I’ve been processing this for for the last couple of months too. I wonder if the going back was not just about going to submit to Abraham and Sarah, but that there’s there was community there that were not Abraham and Sarah. The other folks that would help her raise her baby. The other people that would tell her despite what they did to you. Yeah. We’re we’re gonna love on you. Right? That that when you and and maybe there was some strength that could be drawn from community. And and so why does that matter? That we cannot allow this lie of scarcity. That’s right. That when they say we can’t have reparations because we’ll bankrupt the nation. Right? Or or we can’t forgive your student loans. Because the nation can’t afford it, but we’ll put billions of dollars in war. But but you can’t forgive student loans that would financially empower multiple generations of people. Yes. That that if folks didn’t have to pay, Sallie Mae and Navient and and the rest of them. Right? They they could they could buy a house. They could buy groceries. Right? They they could we could help one another and we cannot allow the live scarcity cause us to discredit the value of community. That even in the midst of this system, that there is community that exists where we can draw empowerment from one another, but these lies they tell us cause us to fight against one another and and say that the or or this mindset that if if I if they get it, then then it takes something from me. And so it keeps us at war with one another and and within our own community that there’s the haves and the have nots. No. We all have not if anybody has not. Right? So there’s value in community. And when I think about that, hey. I I’ve been processing this. Y’all don’t call me a heretic or anything or or that I’m I’m miss you know? But but I wonder if there was value and that was the going back. Wasn’t necessarily about Abraham and Sarah, but the other folks.
Panelist: Yeah. About to jump out of my skin now. I I really I appreciate this turn in the conversation. You know, couple very quick things. Jason Hickle, the economist says that $97,000,000,000,000 is owed to the descendants of those who are locked away in chattel slavery. Yeah. So to that point, this nation was able to release and and we are able. It is possible that would radically transform our nation. Right? Veronica Miles talks about it as imaginative abundance, that there is in fact more than enough, and scarcity is a lie. But also, I think it’s important particularly in this political season that we name the demons we face. Alright. And some of these are old demons.
Ekemini Uwan: Oh, oh,
Panelist: boy. These are these are old demons. They’re just wearing different hats. We’ve got to name it for what it is. Object. Bless you. And understand that the same forces that have sought to keep us from flourishing before are doing the same today.
Dr. Danielle Brown: I’m home.
Rasool Berry: Okay. Receipts have been acquired. Receipts. We’re gonna turn and transition to some some great questions, that we see there, and you can, upvote if you’d like. For our panelists, I’m a try to, combine a couple, that seem to be of the same heart. But the one that it reads, why is it essential for Christians to prioritize providing for the, quote, least of these? And how does this reflect the heart of Christ in our daily lives? I know you mentioned acts as a a picture of, you know, what we see in the church early on. There’s another question in here that asks specifically about homelessness and and and how do we kinda respond when we see that year after year. So why is it essential for Christians to prioritize providing
Dr. Michael Walters: for the least of these, and how does this reflect the heart of Christ in our daily lives? It’s a great question and very specific language because the the answer to the question is in the question. It’s this is a quote of Jesus, for those, who think that they getting into the kingdom. Jesus is saying, look, it’s gonna be a bunch of y’all. Y’all gonna show up. And y’all going y’all gonna think y’all getting in. And he said, but when I was hungry, you didn’t feed me. And when I was in prison, you didn’t visit me. And when I was naked, you didn’t clothe me. And and Jesus said they gonna say, Jesus, if we would have known it was you, when did we see you in this manner? And he said, as you have done for the least of these, such as you’ve done for me. And so I I think the answer to why is it important is the fact that Jesus identifies man, this opens up a can of worms because the Jesus that we have concocted in twenty first century America is so far different from the Jesus who walked this earth. And we have to we stumble over our capitalism to realize the fact that Jesus described himself as someone who did not have a place to lay his head. Jesus identifies with the He’s closer in identity to the poor person than he is to the person who has what we would call in America abundance. And so it’s important for us to understand that inextricably linked in our faith is our ability and our willingness to serve people who are without.
Rasool Berry: Okay. We’ll move to the next one. This one is a question about, we’ve kinda circled on the issue of, the prosperity gospel or just the fact that sometimes you see, churches misusing funds. Right? So someone wrote, a major issue the younger generation has is churches misusing funds. How do we deal with preachers and sneakers, and thousand dollar outfits while congregants struggle? Just so you know, that’s a that’s a famous Instagram account where folks are not not just any sneakers, but, you know, particularly very expensive ones. But, you know, it’s funny how that stray can kinda come back. But no. Kidding. Yeah. Like, let’s, let’s talk about that. Like
Panelist: I’m I’m glad to address it because actually, I think we’re now dealing with mythology. The majority of pastors in this country are bivocational. That’s the first thing Say it again. Majority are bivocational. And so these grand riches that are believed to come with ministry, are not the experience of of majority of individuals. And one of one of the missed insights, particularly of the historic black church, is how much gap funding the neighborhood church provides. Right? They don’t show up anywhere or anyone else’s data point. But if they didn’t pay this, this family’s lights would have been cut off. And if they didn’t tithe here, they would have had any food to eat. And if they didn’t give out of their meager resources, this individual would have been evicted. Right? And so I always caution because there is this broader, more viewed image of pastors, ministries who are fleecing the people. And that’s not to say that that does not happen, and certainly it does happen and should be condemned. But that in by far and away is not the majority nor the experience of most churches. And and I think we have to be careful of grouping all churches, all ministries together, because there are great women and men all across this country who are serving God and serving God well
Rasool Berry: and are making sure that our neighbors are fed and cared for each and every day. Yeah. And that’s a that’s a good point. I believe doctor Eric Mason pointed out that there’s only 3% of the churches, in America are could qualify as megachurches. Right? But it’s ironic they get about 95% of the attention, it seems like, in imagination. Okay. Here’s another one. On that same point, as the prosperity gospel seems to be to waning to be waning, thankfully, what are what other errors should we be watchful for that would seek to distort a correct theology of God’s provision? This received the most votes.
Dr. Michael Walters: Sometimes we retreat to an opposite and equally unhealthy extreme. On the other side of the prosperity gospel is a poverty gospel that is equally dangerous. And it’s important for us not to, retreat to.
Rasool Berry: What’s the poverty gospel?
Dr. Michael Walters: If the if the prosperity gospel using the term loosely is, if you have proper faith, God will give you what you want. A poverty gospel is if you have proper faith, God will give you nothing. So, I am a recovering Instagram addict. I’m I’m weaning myself off of social media bit by bit and I’m and I You mentioned Preachers and Sneakers, I don’t have a problem with Preachers and Sneakers. I got a problem with the comment section under Preachers and Sneakers. Because I believe that as much help as someone wants to do with a with handle like that, it does a lot of harm. And what happens if you if anybody’s paying attention in the, in the comment section is in the comment section is, if you really follow Jesus you would give it all away and have nothing. Your faith means that you should be poor And and and in the same manner that you’re That that a biblical faith doesn’t mean that I should be rich, a biblical faith also mean Doesn’t necessarily mean that I should be poor. It means back to Philippians four, in whatever season I’m in, I should learn to be content in whatever season, and I should be a good steward of what God has given me. In whatever season I’m in, I should be generous. In whatever season I’m in, whatever God gave me, he I must realize he didn’t give it to give it to me for me. He gave it to me so that he could give it through me. It’s the a kingdom mindset that you mentioned from Matthew. It’s this idea that if I, that that that provision always has purpose. And if I’m clear on purpose then God can be clear on provision. And and and and and biblical prosperity isn’t God will give me everything I want. Biblical prosperity is God will give me everything he wants. Because biblical prosperity is me having more than enough to accomplish God’s will on earth.
Panelist: I think another issue is this idea that to be church, you cannot be political. And I wanna tie that into this idea of prosperity gospel and the means of of liberation. You know, this past week was the sixty ninth anniversary of the murder of Emmett Till. And I’ve led individuals to the very banks of the river from which his body was removed. And as those in the Delta often say, there was nothing exceptional about Emmett Till. We were always pulling bodies from the water. The only thing exceptional was about his mother who forced this nation to look upon her son’s face. The reason I mentioned that is because there is some belief, and I’m I’m I’m very troubled by it, that we can bring change to this nation only by prayer. When in fact, what I see our ancestors do is pray and then act. They took their prayers to the streets. And so as we talk about confronting these systems that bring about death, disease, and poverty, it’s not just gonna be accomplished on our knees around the altar, but we got in fact to carry with us that same spirit, the pneuma of God. It’s all the places and spaces where harm is being done. And so I’m hoping that that can be a corrective. Kenyatta Gilbert talks about it as vocational quietism, that we’re talking about all the things except the things that really matter, And that we’re engaged in all the things in church instead of the things that actually bring about transformation to individual daily lives. Right? And so, I’m a hope I’m I’m really prayerful, in this time, that we recognize that it’s holy to vote. I believe that is a holy thing. It’s a righteous thing. It’s a beautiful thing gifted to us by the blood of the ancestors and something that we should engage in. That it is righteous to stand up and speak out on behalf of the oppressed. We see the prophets doing it. We see Jesus doing it. We need to do the same thing. And that in fact, if we truly believe in a god that liberates and sits forth the captive, that’s not just constrained in the Hebrew bible. But in fact, we are living and experiencing that transformational god today and that God can do the same thing in our time.
Rasool Berry: Amen. Amen. Alright. I’m a go to the next one. This also, got a lot of responses, and votes. How can someone manage the tension of seeing God provide for others in a mysterious and a in an abundant way, but not always experiencing that for themselves?
Dr. Danielle Brown: You know, I’d I’d say to that not not in a, you know, snarky way, but sometimes we gotta close our eyes because it is watching other people’s lives and then measuring. Right? Measuring and we love hierarchies. Right? So it’s like, god, you did something better for them than what you’ve done for me. So sometimes we need to close our eyes and and stop watching other people’s lives and then fix our eyes on the Lord. Right? There is is something in comparison And and always comparing what is happening in somebody else’s world, right, with what is happening in ours. Social media can can make that happen. People present an image, and then we are comparing our reality to somebody’s filter. Right? And and somebody’s, presentation of their life, which may or may not even be true. So so I think that that when we close our eyes and and just stop comparing and and just focus on when we focus on this, like, wait. I ate this morning. Wait a minute. I have shoes that did not run out. I I do have a life, a measure of health, some strength, and community. Right? I’ve got some people that I can lean on. And and maybe that’s another thing, right, because we kind of go back to the other question that we have to also be might be leery of, right, is this individualism. That the early church had all things in common. And that those who had more sold they didn’t sell all that they had. They sold some of what they had so that everybody can have something. Right? We are in this together. Yeah. Not to compare. That’s right. Well, they have more, so it means that God robbed me. Somebody else’s blessings take nothing away from the next person. And when we stop comparing, maybe we can see God more clearly. We can’t see God because our eyes are fixed on my neighbor.
Rasool Berry: So good.
Ekemini Uwan: Okay. Russell, can I add to that? Please. I would say, I think sometimes we have to be honest when we’re offended by God. You know? That’s what Jesus Jesus said, you know, to John the Baptist, like, tell John that, you know, it’s a recovery of sight of the blind, people getting healed, all this, you know. But blessed is the one who who’s not offended, you know, by me. You know? And I think we have to be honest, like, am I offended by God? Because I’ve been winning in the waiting room. Am I offended by god? Because I prayed for this friend and the lord did it for the friend, but he ain’t doing it for me. Like, he done forgot about me. Yeah. I think we just gotta be honest about when we are offended by god. But I think, like Danielle said, we do have to close our eyes. And then we also cannot despise the package God’s provision comes in. Yeah. That’s right. If it comes through EBT, hallelujah anyhow. If it comes through Medicaid and Medicare, hallelujah anyhow. Okay? Is it I I mean, I’m serious, you know, because God has provided. I mean, the very fact that you’re here at this conference, you know, that’s a bit of a privilege. I mean, you you gotta pay, you know, to be able to come. You gotta if you’re not local, you gotta pay for a hotel stay. You gotta do a whole lot, you know, in order to be able to come and attend a conference like this. You have the faculty of your mind, the activity of your limbs to even type out, you know, that question. Sometimes you really gotta bring it down fundamentally to what god has given you. And I know it’s hard. I under I understand, you know, what it means to be in God’s waiting room. Trust me. I do know. You know? But I think, we have to we we gotta be honest, you know, about when we’re offended by God. But we also need to be able to really have a good assessment about what has what god has done, how he has provided, and use that as a measuring stick for our faith to know that we will that god will continue to pride provide for us. Like, our faith helps our hope. Right? Is that what you said? That that’s I’m I’m putting that in my pocket because that blessed me real good. You know? But I I think we we we just gotta be real honest with God when we’re angry, and when we have despised God’s blessings. And we need that gratitude, you know, because that being this being, entitled, that keeps us blocks us, you know, from other other things that god wants to give us. God wants a thankful heart. God wants a grateful heart. Right? And so, just be honest. Pour your heart out to God, but close your eyes, you know,
Rasool Berry: and trust that God has not forgotten you. Yeah. No. That’s that’s so good. I think about, Paul. You know, it tells us that he sat and was a student of Gamaliel. So, you know, considered still to this day one of the top rabbis in in history. He was, you know, fluent in multiple languages, well traveled. And I can imagine as he’s writing Philippians where where is he writing it from again? From a jail cell. From a jail cell. From a jail cell. That he could go through the role of thinking about those maybe when he was appearing before Felix and Agrippa who were in his same class hurling accusations at him and are living quite comfortably while he is in bondage and he is, you know, in prison. And so I’m sure he had to wrestle with that because he says, I learned the secret. You know? So it’s something that he had to be he he had to learn and and have the experience and and wrestle with. And I think related to this, I’m gonna, there’s a several questions that kinda play on these two themes together. But, the question is, how do you stay content and lowly while also building wealth for your family and future? Right? And there’s several questions that’s kinda like, okay. How do how do we hold together this perspective or attitude of gratitude while at the same time wanting to understand and recognize the systems of inequality that have been there that may have been personally impacting us and actually reversing that curse and transforming that. Like, how do we hold that together?
Dr. Michael Walters: Russell, one of the things I’ve learned is just quickly is that the two things are connected. Content the only way I’ve the only way I can build for my future, the only way I can invest in in the future me and and leave an inheritance to my children’s children is I gotta begin with contentment in the here and now and in today. Because the money that I’m spending, I could be spending on the present Bobby or I can be spending on the future Levi, Reuben, and Joseph. And so what contentment in my shoe closet, since y’all coming for me, contentment in the house or what I buy or the the the vacations I go on or clothing or whatever the case may be, frees up again. I I keep going back to this principle in in in second Corinthians. There is seed and there’s bread. And seed is not just I know y’all when y’all hear seed, we we in church, so we talk about the seed offering. No. Seed seed is what I invest in the kingdom, but seed is also what I invest in myself. Seed is what I invest in my future self. Seed is what I invest in my business. Seed is what I invest in my in in a life insurance policy. Seed is what I invest in my retirement. And and and if I consume my seed, it’s probably linked to my contentment or lack thereof. But if I sow my seed, so for for future harvests, not just for me, but future harvests for my church and future harvest for the kingdom of God and future harvest for my children’s children begins, I believe, with a idea of contentment.
Panelist: I think we gotta be careful not to mismanage our wealth in pursuit of wealth. And what I mean by that is that oftentimes, through our aspirations and goal, we negate the wealth of our family. We spend more time trying to build up our bank accounts. We don’t spend the intimate time that we should together. In in working, beyond our capacity, we negate the wealth of our health. Saw a wonderful post the other day that said generational wealth is also this. And it listed family. It listed health. It listed nature. That is wealth as well. And if you are so and I think all of us, you know, if you perceive yourself a high achiever, you might be guilty of this pursuing some goals, some vista, some platform that you’re trying to obtain, All the while missing the opportunity to enjoy the wealth that is around you. I’ll never forget this very quickly. In in in college, my first semester of college, it was Thanksgiving. And I was just happy to go to my papa and granny’s house in the country. We’re gonna set our feet under the table and eat and enjoy family. But I had a classmate, and if I called their name, you would know it, the last name, because it’s a very popular last name. There’s a lot of wealth connected to that name. And I remember how despondent he was as we were getting ready to part from one another. I was so excited, jubilant, gonna see my family, gonna connect after this first semester, but he was going to go home where no one was going to be present because his father and his father’s new wife were spending their time in Europe. And I thought about that. He had so much more access to resources, a bigger house, and yet was saddened because he did not have the wealth that I had, which was that of family and community. So we gotta be very careful not to miss our wealth or mismanage our wealth in pursuit of another type of wealth. Amen.
Dr. Danielle Brown: This, kinda keeps keeps me grounded. Right? That that the reality that whether I’m living paycheck to paycheck or whether I have savings in the bank, I am just as valuable to the Lord and the kingdom. That’s so great. That if it’s true, and I believe the Bible. Right? And and I believe that it is true that before I formed you in your mother’s womb, I knew you. Right? So before I had the capacity to create wealth, right, I had value. God had plans for my life. And and so, these things do not define my value. Yet, when you have increase and and you’ve, kind of achieved and and the the world’s kind of measures of what is success and what we tag success, We are all one decision away from it all being gone. You you know, like, they’re one decision away or one day away, one more government policy right away, one more deregulation that allows companies to, you know, just price gouge away from from being. And then this responsibility as a Christian to make sure that I’m being mindful of others. I think about the days that I did not have, and I try to be in this season of my life what I wish I had. So when I have extra and I’m going to the women in ministry conference next week, I’m gonna register other young preachers, other young women in ministry. Right? Because I don’t want them to have the same struggle if I can mitigate it Because the Lord has get right. And that stuff keeps you keeps you humble because you’re always remembering but for the grace of God.
Rasool Berry: I’m a try to just put this out, quickly. I don’t know how, if we can just get to this or another one. But what so in general, there’s a lot of questions about practical, like, either issues of what do I do with my money, how do I be better at stewarding, or or other specific situations. And so there might be a broad sense in which how do you counsel people who are looking for financial counsel. Right? That so keep that. The one that has a lot of votes is what are some good ways to discern the difference and the pressure to hustle versus the need to work well? And I think you you kinda, you know, spoke on that, Pastor Waters, in terms of just that we do live in a culture that really I mean, workaholism is the only aholism that actually can get you a pat on the back. You know what I mean? Which is kind of bizarre in some sense. But so but that’s in there. That’s there. That hustle culture, you know, some of that is financially driven just because of the economics of things. But what are some good ways to discern the difference between the pressure to hustle versus the need to work well? And I think in more in general, if there’s some other ideas of, like, what do you how do you counsel people when, you know, they’re just trying to figure out some very specific financial situations.
Ekemini Uwan: Yeah. So, I I can’t really tell you all about financial resources like that because I don’t always trust a lot of these that’s just me. And sometimes I don’t always trust some of these financial adviser people, you know, that are on Instagram because they got their stuff. But I do say get fine I will say get life insurance. This is a big issue for for our people, you know, because sometimes we, you know, we don’t know when our lives will be demanded of us. And I don’t I can’t tell you how many times we ever had to raise money, on GoFundMe, you know, for a family member, that died suddenly that did not have life insurance. So that is one my my one piece of counsel on finances is to get you a life insurance policy. Whole life, not term life, whole life. Okay? Then, hustle cost culture versus working well are are working with excellence. I think we have got to check the ways in which capitalism, has, corrupted community and is eroding our souls. There’s a way in which, capitalism, it has, tore at the fabric of our collective, fictive kinship as a people, which is something which is a cultural, reality for many people of African and African descent. And the individualism, right, that we’ve that has has come up as a theme is really crept in, you know, to our churches. It’s crept into our communities. And so there’s there’s a epidemic of loneliness. You know, the data is out there, and the data is clear, you know, on that. And then even the rates of loneliness even among black men, right, which is even much higher, than what, black women are experiencing. And so we have we gotta take stock about the ways in which we have been discipled into a capitalistic, mentality. Right? And so, yes, it’s good to work hard and and and and and work us onto the Lord. But we gotta understand that, hustling and hustling and hustling and spinning our wheels, if the Lord if the Lord has not built it, it is not gonna happen. You know, we can hustle ourselves into our an early grave if we’re not careful. High blood pressure, anybody? Diabetes, anybody? We we got to take stock of those those those realities in the ways they manifest into our into our bodies. The Sabbath was made for man. Okay? And, we have to recover Sabbath principles, I think, and understanding, like, this is the day as unto the lord. It’s it’s for me to rest and to recognize that my finitude and that God, that everything doesn’t depend on me. And that God in my in my rest, in my, solitude, as I reflect on the lord and what god has done, I know that god is working as I’m resting because this god doesn’t slumber nor sleep. Right? And he’s never taken or caught off guard by anything that happens even though I’m often caught off guard by the things that happen in my life. But we we have to recognize that that day was made for us. You know? So what does it mean for us to recover that and truly rest in god? Because faith does call us to rest. And then when it’s time to work, let’s work with the spirit of excellence, which is completely different from hustling. You know what I mean? It’s it’s working with excellence, trying to do your very best with everything that you’ve got, like the prophetess Mariah has said. You know? So making sure that we’re able to work with the spirit of excellence, you know, like Daniel. Right? And asking God to help us, you know, to do our work well, even if we don’t like our job, even if we don’t like what we do. To to do it well. Right? Knowing that God sees it and God will honor that and reward that. And so I just wanted to throw out some of those distinctions if that’s helpful. Well, this has been robust.
Rasool Berry: I I wanna wish we had more time to connect, but I I’d like to just do that remember me prayer over all of us that maybe we can get some of that glory coming on that side. Let’s let’s pray, and just whatever right. Let’s lift up whatever financial needs there might be in and amongst us. Father in heaven, we thank you that you are the god of provision. We thank you that we can trust you and even that these stories and these testimonies would affirm and confirm your care and concern for us. And, Lord, let us not forget that you just like with Abraham, you bless us to be a blessing, not to hoard for ourselves, not to only think about ourselves, but to pay it forward and to bless others. God, we pray for every financial need that is here online, in this room. And, Lord, we just pray that you your hand of provision, would be upon us, that we would have what we need, and, that we would also be a blessing so that the least of these could have what they need as well. And so we commit this to you, and we thank you for every insight and thought that was on this panel. And we just commit this time to you in Christ’s name. Amen. Amen. Thank you all.